dafydd
01-22-2004, 02:37 AM
FM: Lord
Alan's Fortress
File: Fortress_v1a.zip
Play mode: Ghost (success)
Perfect Thief (failed)
Time: 7:25
Loot: 11,610 of 12,500 (10,500 required)
Pockets picked: 34 of 36
Backstabs: 0 Knockouts: 0
Kills: 0 Damage dealt: 0
Bodies discovered by enemies: 0
Secrets: 12 of 15
Comments:
As this has already been perfected by Peter Smith and perhaps others, there is
nothing for me to add.
I went back later with a loot list and found the three secrets I missed; they
were all obvious, and I should have gotten them. Yeesh!
Dafydd
Peter Smith
02-04-2004, 11:21 PM
FM: Curse
of the Falcon
File: Fluch-des-Falken.zip (part 1)
Play mode: Ghost (success)
Perfect Thief (failed)
Time: 3:12:23
Loot: 6042 / 9277 (5000 required)
Pockets picked: 7 of 17 (count seems wrong)
Backstabs: 0
Knockouts: 0
Kills: 0
Damage dealt: 0
Damage received: 0
Secrets: 0 / 0
Comments:
This is Part 1 of a two mission pack, the first of which (Curse of the Falcon)
is by Christine Schneider, and the second of which (Mereska
- City of Flames, by Ar-Zimrathon) is reported in
another post.
This mission is typical of Christine's work: classy, very nice architecture and
detail, well timed AI, very well hidden loot, great edibles and pastries, and
not too difficult, apart from the loot. I think this one is a step above the
rest. It is a really good ghosting mission.
The ghosting was straightforward for the most part. Most of the map is in city
streets, where the guards were quite easy to avoid by hiding in shadows, with
one exception. The exception was a stationary guard between the entrance to Tarmesk's mansion and the City Park. She was a little
goosey, but not all that hard to avoid in normal travel.
Inside the mansion is where most of the loot and action is. Most of it is not
difficult, requiring only normal ghost timing and a little running around on
marble floors, which are not too difficult either. Christine tunes her missions
to be playable, not impossibly hard.
There was one spot in the mansion worthy of mention, and that is the room where
Tarmesk and a lady are having a one sided
conversation. She is the one talking, about how smart she is. Anyway, the
lighting in there consists of an electric chandelier and a fireplace. There is
no switch for the chandelier, and the AI alert when you dowse the fireplace. It
is fairly difficult just to get inside the room. Once in, it looks like it
might be impossible to get the loot. But it is possible. Just take the back
route around the edge of the room, creep slowly enough, and, when going to the
fireplace, hop over the backs of chairs. Once at the fireplace, you can lean
and grab all the loot.
Outside the mansion, opposite the goosey guard, there is a shop with a brightly
lit front entrance. It is quite hard to get situated in the entrance without
that guard seeing you, but it can be done by slowly approaching the doorway
from the guard's side and then dashing to the miniscule spot where she can't
see you. Then there is the problem of opening the door. If you open it
normally, the shopkeeper inside is facing you and immediately alerts. The way I
got in was to wedge myself against the door hinge so the door opened only 45
degrees. Then I could creep along the door, past the threshold, where there was
a relatively dark spot. Then I could open the door all the way and dowse a lamp
inside, which enabled me get inside and do my work.
That same building, on the guard's side, contains a small house with a woman
inside doing kitchen work. She is facing the door. It not too difficult to get
into the door jamb and put out two candles, and then go in and loot the place.
I must confess, however, that I did an unclean act in there. I started the
mission late at night just before retiring. When the woman alerted, I BJ'ed her, searched the place, and left the building,
having saved the game both before and after the BJ incident. When I came back
the next evening to play it, I forgot completely about the BJ and continued on
from my last saved game, investing another two hours in ghosting the mission.
Later I was searching around for Lars to complete it, and I came across the BJ'ed woman and I nearly had an attack. Only then did it
click. So, to atone for my offence I went back to the good save and ghosted it
as described. I did not want to spend another 2 hours of game play and four
hours of clock time repeating myself on the remainder, so, this is a piecemeal
ghost.
OK, back to business. I had a lot of trouble finding Keeper Lars, one of the
objectives. I revisited all the places I had been and still could not find him.
So I consulted a spoiler at TTLG, another unclean act, but permitted. Lars is
found by frobbing a secret switch in the antique shop
(owned by the villain, Tarmesk). That leads to a loot
stash, and another switch leads to Lars.
I do not believe the pocket count, unless I missed a major part of the mission
with a large number of AI (seems doubtful). I picked all the pockets I could
see. None of the guards were difficult to get behind.
My low loot count does indicate that I have missed a major loot stash or two. I
think I tried all the doors in all the buildings, but there were a lot of unfrobbable doors, so perhaps one or more of the buildings
can be entered another way. I suspect, instead, that it is one or more of
Christine's trademarked tiny switches. I also know of one door I could not
enter in the mansion. In the basement by the kitchen there is a locked wood
door for which I could find neither a key nor a switch.
I think I'll have a go at finding more loot. Christine is pretty good at hiding
it, so I probably cannot get to 100%. We will see. :)
Peter Smith
02-04-2004, 11:30 PM
FM: Mereska - City of Flames
File: Fluch-des-Falken.zip (part 2)
Play mode: Ghost (success)
Perfect Thief (failed)
Time: 1:07:18
Loot: 2912 / 3617 (2500 required)
Pockets picked: 0 of 7 (count seems wrong)
Backstabs: 0
Knockouts: 0
Kills: 0
Damage dealt: 0
Damage received: 0
Secrets: 0 / 0
Comments
This is Part 2 of a two mission pack, the first of which (Curse of the Falcon)
is reported above.
This is a nice little mission that seems larger than it is. Before you enter
the City of Flames, you are in a snowy scene with wrecked buildings and undead.
This is a fun part to play owning to the climbing you have to do to get into
all the little areas. Eventually you find a key to a church, which ultimately
leads you to Mereska. Mereksa
is kind of like parts of Lost City, except there is much more lava and red
coloring, and the lights that sense your presence are red rather than blue. It
has nice atmosphere.
I particularly like the new AI in there. They are succubi,
red colored women with wings and naughty habits, that leave a trail of colored
lights behind them when they walk. Later on, there are some more standard skelleys.
On the way to the city is a green spiders that requires some care to get past.
Just climb up along the edge of the room, drop down next to his legs where it
is dark, and sneak past.
Once in the flaming part, there is a nice little bit of hopping over lava and
broken, sinking buildings. That leads you to a building in the city, which you
enter and loot. The first part of the building is populated by the Succubi, which are not too difficult to sneak past. Then
you go upstairs and find a room full of spiders that I could not ghost. So I
missed some spectacles worth 50. Seems like a lot of firepower just to guard
some spectacles. Could be I missed something else in there.
Then you come to a pair of skelleys in a hallway.
There is no conventional way to ghost the first one by waiting in shadow. You
need to trail him right behind his butt and to the left a little. Then, when he
turns right at the end of his patrol route, you can (sometimes), sneak past him
and duck into a room in the hall. The second skelley
is easier once you find that hiding place.
From there you find a large Cathedral with a nice façade that looks like it
will be very exciting. In fact, it is not. When you go inside, you see some
rather plain architecture, no AI, and a flame you just walk up to in order to
complete a ritual with the Falcon. Then you leave. Kind of an anticlimax.
Never mind. Most of the mission is interesting, and the AI are terrific.
Again, I cannot believe the pocket total, and I am missing some loot that I
will try to find another time.
dafydd
02-05-2004, 03:57 AM
[Peter]
Good job on the loot; you got a little more than I, but I got two more picks
than you. So we're even :D .
I'm pretty proud of the next post....
Dafydd
dafydd
02-05-2004, 04:19 AM
FM: The
Docks... All Aboard (Docks 2)
File: t2docks.zip
Play mode: Ghost (success!)
Perfect Thief (failed, but really close)
Time: 1:27
Loot: 1443 of 1543 (1200 required)
Pockets picked: 5 of 7
Backstabs: 0
Knockouts: 0
Kills: 0
Damage dealt: 0
Damage received: 0
Secrets: 0 of 0
Comments
This entire mission is easily ghostable except for
one spot. I don't know if it's been ghosted before; I can't find any ghost
reports in the archives or in this thread.
My method was flakier than a well-made croissant... but I believe it works even
under the newly revamped ghost rules. I rely in particular upon the following
example of a first-level alert that does not bust the ghost:
Examples of first level alerts that do not bust the ghost include but are not
limited to:
...* Human stands up in bed motionless. May grumble, as "Must've been
rats."
The one room that everyone seems to have had trouble with is inside the boat,
on the lower deck, down the long corridor and into a locked room, where there
is a sleeping guard. There is a locked door in that room, and you must pick it
to get inside and get a Keeper medallion -- one of your objectives.
The problem is that the blasted guard is a light sleeper... and the room is a
light trap! It's too bright, and there is nothing you can shut off. The moment
you apply your lockpick, the sleeper awakes; he then
rotates to face directly towards you, sees you, and alerts. Awful stuff.
But I noticed something: when he first awakens from the noise of the lockpick, he is unalerted
(rather, a first-level alert state). He doesn't go into searching mode until he
turns and sees you.
I tried getting behind him and jumping; but no matter where I stood, when he
woke up, he turned to face me and alerted. I tried standing behind him and
shooting an arrow into a wall; but even then, instead of turning towards the
noise, he turned to face me. Busted again.
Finally, I had a brainstorm: I exited the room into the dark hallway. From
there, I leaned around the door and fired a broadhead
into the wall beside the bed.
Sleeping Beauty awoke; as usual, he awoke unalerted.
But he could not face me, as I was in the hallway, both totally dark and out of
line of sight. I waited a moment, then peeked in... and the silly doofus was
turned to face directly away from the door I had to pick! I tried it again just
to be sure, and again he ended up facing that direction.
So I simply re-entered the room, closed the door, and proceeded to pick open
the locked door. He never even squawked at the noise. I got in, looted the
safe, and exited, all without him budging from his position staring directly at
the nearest wall.
The rest of the report is simply engineering details.
But it was the darndest thing... it's the first time
I ever ghosted a room by deliberately waking a sleeping guard :eek: !
Dafydd
Peter Smith
02-05-2004, 07:30 PM
Daffyd,
LOL. :D I think clayman might have a few choice words
to say about that, but with my left-wing interpretations, I think you are good
to go. :)
dafydd
02-06-2004, 04:18 AM
[Peter]
Clayman aside, patron saint of ghosting though he may
be, I maintain that the rules mean what the rules say... especially now that
we've just spent a couple of months rewriting them to the consensus of the
ghosting community, such as showed up here for the exercise.
He stud up in bed but didn't initiate any searching behavior... so he ain't alerted, dadburn it!
Dafydd
Old Man
02-06-2004, 07:45 AM
dafydd,
A big part of the problem here may be the Broadhead arrow used. I wonder if you
stood in the dark hall and jumped would he behave the same? What's this notch
out of the wall? You did retrieve it, didn't you? Or even just enough lockpicking to get him started and scurry out to the dark
hallway. Would that work?
Certainly a variation on a theme. Does it really matter which noise get's him up?
However, one of the newer suggestions is that when in doubt, fail.
Zaccheus
02-06-2004, 09:57 AM
The
current ghost rules say:
8.) No alerts means no distractions, noisemakers, artificial diversions that
cause an AI to search for you, even if it is away from where you are. No
Garrett/artifically induced suicides of AI or melees
that intentionally cause AI to attack each other. No use of frog eggs allowed.
The clause is now missing from the new rules, I'm assuming that's because it is
redundant.
Anyway, I think you are very very close to breaking
the 'no distractions' bit, even if you did not cause the AI to search.
Technically you are clean though.
:)
dafydd
02-06-2004, 01:07 PM
[Zaccheus]
The clause you cite is still in the rules... at the end of section 5 of the
commentary section:
No alerts also means no distractions, noisemakers, or artificial diversions
that cause an AI to search for you, even if it is away from where you are. No
use of frog eggs is allowed, as they necessarily alert AI, even though the
damage does not show up in the stats.
It's not a "technical" point that the above forbids and has always
forbidden diversions "that cause an AI to search for you." This
diversion simply caused him to stand up in bed, which is explictly
given in an example of what constitutes an alert that does not bust the ghost.
This is like Congress passing a law that defines murder as killing a human not
in self defense... and then when somebody kills in self defense, saying "you're just getting off on a
technicality!" :lol
Dafydd
Zaccheus
02-07-2004, 04:04 PM
I'll
respond in the 'clarification' thread.
:)
dafydd
02-12-2004, 05:29 AM
FM: Mad
As a Hatter
File: Mad_v1.zip
Play mode: Ghost (success)
Perfect Thief (failed)
Time: 3:15
Loot: 3549 of 3749 (2000 required)
Pockets picked: 11 of 12 (all, I think)
Backstabs: 0
Knockouts: 0
Kills: 0
Damage dealt: 0
Damage received: 0
Secrets: 3 of 3
Comments
This is a very good FM to ghost; in fact, on Expert level ("Legend"),
you're only allowed three KOs... so ghosting is almost forced upon you.
There are two really difficult areas to ghost: the asylum cell hallways on the
second and third floors, and the miniscule (two-grave) churchyard, where you
have to dump a body in a grave without alerting a zombie-skeleton nearby.
For the grave, I mossed the empty grave where I would
throw Timothy's body; but even then, when I stood in the grave and dropped the
body, there was an audible thud, and the skelly popped up. As it's pretty
bright there, and he patrols around in a tight circle, if he awakens, he's
going to see me and alert.
Finally, I stood outside the grave, leaned over, and dropped the body so that
it bounced off the far edge of the grave. The noise from this was soft enough
that Skelly didn't awaken.
The cell hallways are light traps: there are well-lit patches, flickering
patches, and a pair of patrollers on both floors. In addition, there are some
stationary guards. Everybody is hinkey and alerts
with even a brief flicker. Finally, on the third floor, you eventually have to
get past two stationary guards who stare directly the direction you're coming
from... and there is a big, brightly lit patch for seven feet in front of them.
I watched for a long time, finally noticing that there were a few spots along
the hallways that were always in shadow; if I crouched in one of these, and the
patrollers were not alerted, they would walk right past me, even bump into me,
without noticing.
Much of the hallway was too brightly lit to traverse... but in between some of
the perpetually dark areas, the lights would occasionally dim. During these
brief intervals, I found I could scoot quickly to the next fully dark spot
(picked out in advance) before the light came back up again. During this run, I
was in complete darkness, thus invisible. Of course, I had to time it so that
there was not a guard right next to me when I tore past :D .
At the end of the third-flood cell hallway, I had to deal with the two
stationaries. I crept to the right, staying along the hall wall in shadow, and
got next to the right-hand guard. I began nudging him, trying to be careful;
even so, I got spotted a couple of times and had to reload.
I edged him towards his buddy, all the while trying to squirm past him through
the doorway he was guarding. And keeping an eye out behind me, because the
office area behind his door was brightly lit, and a patroller coming up behind
me would spot me in a Scalosian second. Eventually, I
nudged him far enough that I was able to wriggle past; I quickly shut the door
and picked up the keys in the office, allowing me to complete the mission.
Some people seemed to have trouble getting out of the asylum into the
surrounding courtyard; but this is likely because they insisted upon exiting
through the well-lit front door!
Thinking like a thief, however, I discovered that if I returned to the sewer
where I arrived -- in fact, just to my left as I first entered the sewer system
at the start of the game -- there is a ladder taking me up to a set of four
hallways that surround the courtyard. From here, I was easily able to access
both the cemetary (to dump the body) and the clocktower (my exit point)... no need to monkey with the
front door at all, at all.
I was not able to get the final objective to check off; no matter where I went
in the clocktower, the mission wouldn't end, even
though I had completed all other objectives. I just went ahead and used
Ctrl-Alt-Shft-End... and I still count this as a
successful ghost, even though the FM never noticed I was where I was supposed
to end up.
Dafydd
dafydd
02-22-2004, 12:26 PM
FM: The
Secret of Sir Stefan
Series: Lord Ashton
File: Lord_Ashton_SeriesV2.zip
Play mode: Ghost (success)
Perfect Thief (failed)
Time: 2:30
Loot: 5127 of 6727 (5000 required)
Pockets picked: 8 of 9 (all, I think)
Backstabs: 0
Knockouts: 0
Kills: 0
Damage dealt: 0
Damage received: 0
Secrets: 0 of 0
Comments
I've been ghosting my way through this series, which is a very good one for
such purposes. I just wanted to note that I had the same problem as Vanguard --
and the same problem as Peter!
Like with Vanguard, several of the AIs had delayed-action second-level alerts,
which drove me nuts: I would put out a light, wait about ten or fifteen seconds
to make sure nobody was alerting, save, move into the now-dark area, and begin
sneaking -- when abruptly, perhaps a minute or so later, one of the AI far away
would suddenly scream and begin searching. Fortunately, unlike Vanguard, I
always use multiple save slots... so I was able to retreat to an earlier save
each time (I never use QuickSave).
After a while, especially in the upper floor of the thieves' guild, I took to
putting out lights and then retreating out of sight in a safe, dark place to
just wait for a minute or so, just to see whether anyone would pitch a
time-delated hissy fit at finding himself in the dark. It made the mission five
times as hard, since in that section, there are so many patrolling AI that
there really were very few safe places to hover and wait; the best ones I found
were:
- The rooms left or right off the corridor in between the first rotunda room
and the T-intersection (I didn't need to douse the light in this corridor); if
I tried to stay in the corridor itself, then either when the black-clad
patroller came or when he went, depending on what side of the corridor I was
on, he would pass near me and see me... I had to be in one of the rooms to be
safe;
- After dousing both torches in the cross of the T, then to the end of the far
branch, right near the stationary, black-clad sword guard, pressed up against
the right wall; after dousing the light to the left along the hall leading to
Sir Stefan's room, I was able to sneak across right in front of him down the
corridor to Stefan's room to steal the Mystic's Heart;
- Inside most of the rooms, once I had turned off electric lights using a
switch, it was dark enough to hide, even without putting out the fireplace
fires, the candles, or the lanterns; even the room with the safe, when I was
tucked over right next to the potted plant that is along the back wall where
the safe and other loot is, the patroller would walk in, walk to the back near
the electric lamp, then turn around and walk out without seeing me. The only
exception was Sir Stefan's room, where I had to douse the fireplace to get it
dark enough not only to avoid being spotted by patrollers but in order to sneak
past the stationary guard to get into the secret passage to approach the
Mystic's Heart, which is guarded by three red burricks.
Pretty much everywhere else guaranteed a bust, since there was so much traffic
I had to wait a while, and eventually somebody would walk close enough to see
me.
I also had exactly the same problem Peter did: my first time through the upper
floors of the thieves' guild, I used water arrows liberally, figuring I was
near the end... but when I got to the Heart, completely out of water (and I
never did find any gas arrows), I discovered eight torches blazing bright,
lighting it up like Sunday noon! The burricks spotted
me even before I got to the ladder down.
I had to go all the way back to my earliest save; alas, it was after I had
already doused both torches in the entry rotunda, and I had only ten water
arrows left (and no gas, per above). I knew from my first run that I needed at
least six water arrows in the burrick area... which
meant I had only four to expend getting there.
I had to knock out both torches in the crossbar of the T-intersection; it's the
most heavily trafficked corridor in the entire mission and everyone is very hinkey about light. I also knocked out the torch in the
corridor connecting this crossbar with Sir Stefan's room. When I got into Sir
Stefan's room, I knocked out the hearth fire. This left me just six arrows, so
I had to leave the lantern on the table lit; I was somewhat illuminated near
that part of the room, so I approached the opened secret passage (you frob the gold skull on the right side of the fireplace)
from the left, across the couch that had moved away when the passage opened.
Even though my light gem was a fairly brightish
green, the half-blind guard didn't do more than grumble a bit.
Down the corridor and to the burrick area. From above
(of course), I knocked out all of the torches except the two exactly opposite
the platform where I started. This gave me enough darkness to loot the four
Lost City chests and just enough darkness to grab the Mystic's Heart without
the burricks alerting past the first level.
Returning, looting the rest of the rooms was pretty tough, considering that I
hadn't knocked out any torches at all on the left side (the left branch of the
T-intersection). Oddly, however, the hardest sneak was getting past the
stationary guard at the right branch of the T-intersection to get into the room
to the right, the opposite way from Sir Stefan's room along that same corridor.
I tried several times and couldn't get to it at first; so I left it until last,
looting all the other rooms first. I was a little nervous, because I still
hadn't reached 5000 yet: I needed that room, and I didn't even remember how
much was in there. Would I have enough to complete the mission?
Although I had doused the torch in the T and the torch leading up towards Sir
Stefan's crib, there was another torch to my right: my choices (since I had no
water arrows left) were either to try to sneak along the right wall opposite
from the guard -- which meant directly beneath the torch (and he spotted me
every time) -- or else trying to cross the corridor to the guard's side, where
he seemed to spot me every time. Eventually I noticed that he delayed a little
between his first and second alerts; from the safe, dark spot in the
T-intersection corridor, before going around the corner into the torchlight, I mossed the whole corridor to the right... then I stood,
waited until there were no patrollers, and ran full-speed from my safe spot to
the wall of the corridor right next to the stationary guard (to his left,
between him and the door).
I was in full bright light there, red dot inside a fully lit light gem; but I
was outside his peripheral vision. He made some comment as I buzzed past,
something like "what the -- ?!" but never alerted beyond that stage:
no moving, no searching, no raising of sword. As I moved quickly towards the
door, any patroller returning from Sir Stefan's room would have seen me
immediately, and one had just passed heading that direction. Just as I opened
the door, the stationary guard said "must have been nothing, I
guess," so I knew he hadn't really noticed me.
Once I got into the room and turned off the light (or maybe it was already
off), I was in total dark. I looted the place, and that was what finally put me
over the top. Yippie ki
yay! Coming back, I did the same trick, standing and darting past the guard.
This time, he didn't even make a first-level alert comment. I reckon he was
just a bit slow on the uptake :rolleyes: .
In the end, I had to completely bypass the bar; it requires all the torches and
the lantern to be doused -- seven, I think -- and you get only 250 loot in
there; I had just enough after raiding the thieves' guild and no water arrows
left at all... so I just left it for some other thief to loot :D .
Dafydd
dafydd
02-23-2004, 06:07 PM
Series:
Lord Ashton
File: Lord_Ashton_SeriesV2.zip
Missions:
A Visit to Lord Ashton's
A Night's Stroll
Escape!
Revenge
In Search of Leon
The Secret of Sir Stefan
A Winter's Night
The Wedding of Sir Andre
Play mode: Ghost (success)
Perfect Thief (failed)
Campaign Time: 23:29
Loot: 55,321 of 64,676 (43,000 required --
8000+6000+5000+5000+4000+5000+4000+6000)
Pockets picked: 70 of 92
Backstabs: 1
Knockouts: 0
Kills: 1
Damage dealt: 15
Damage received: 0
Secrets: 0 of 0
Comments
The one kill was the assassination of Lady Helena, which was an objective of
one of the missions in the campaign, Revenge.
This is a wonderful series for a beginner to ghost. It's tough without being
impossible (a la Ominous Bequest, which can't be ghosted, period), and nothing
requires abusing the Dark Engine to get by, as with A Keeper's Betrayal
(floating books, squirting spiders). There were a few uncomfortable moments,
such as the need to plan water-arrow use very carefully in The Secret of Sir
Stefan; but all in all, if someone is just getting into ghosting, this is a
great series to point him towards.
And the missions are great, too! Even apart from their instructive value for
ghosting. I really enjoyed it -- although in the last mission, I spent about an
hour of game time hunting down that bloody Armory Key. Grrr,
argh.
Dafydd
dafydd
02-25-2004, 04:16 PM
FM: A Love
Story
File: ALoveStory.zip
Play mode: Ghost - failure
Reasons for failure:
- Yellow alert from watcher in foyer
(Now fixed; see below)
- Use of a loot list
Zero damage - success
Time: 4:32
Loot: 2084 of 2314 (2000 required)
Pockets picked: 16 of 23
Backstabs: 0
Knockouts: 0
Kills: 0
Damage dealt: 0
Damage received: 0
Secrets: 2 of 2
Comments
The sneaking in this mission is very difficult: guards all over the place,
long, bright distances to traverse in between shadows, lots of areas with metal
or marble flooring to alert guards. But the most difficult aspect of ghosting A
Love Story is the relative paucity of loot, coupled with a high loot
requirement.
I had to run all over the police station, Bafford's
place, and the city to scavange little bits of loot
here and there. The story is that Garrett has returned to loot a place he had
just been (in an earlier FM from John D.), so the actual loot available is as
rare as roosters' eggs. But in game terms, it seems much more difficult than
usual even to get enough loot to finish the game, let alone make perfect thief
(which I think is currently impossible for another reason, detailed below).
I have never before had to use a loot list just to get enough loot to finish.
Sometimes, after ghosting a mission, I'll dive back in and use a loot list to
see if I can find all the available loot, just for curiosity's sake. But this
time, I was stuck at 1859 for the longest time before breaking down. (It didn't
matter; my ghost had already been busted; see below.)
There is still some loot I cannot find even with the list... so if your
favorite part of playing thief is undertaking a long and detailed search for
every last scrap of loot, maybe this is the mission for you!
I would have been more upset about the loot situation had I been working on a
ghost; but I believe ghosting this mission is (was) impossible. There is a
critical area, the foyer of the police station, where I had to dart across from
a darkened stair to the side of the foyer, whence I could shoot water arrows at
the two "golf tee" torches.
However, there is a watcher watching... and its back and forth head-turning is
so small that there is never a time when it isn't looking directly at the
doorway through which I must run. At least, I got a yellow alert every time I
tried, and I don't think it's possible to get through there without being
busted -- though Vanguard, Deadman, and Clayman
haven't tried yet :D .
You can turn the watcher off, but only after passing through into the foyer
(the right-hand door leads to a room; behind a metal door in that room is the
guard station with the watcher switch). You can douse the torches in the foyer
without passing through the doorway... but only by leaning in; and leaning with
the water arrows selected, or leaning and then selecting them, also draws a
yellow alert from the watcher.
The mission could be made ghostable, at least for
really good loot hunters, by simply adjusting the watcher's "patrol"
(the turning of the face) so that it turns a little farther left and right;
this would make it possible to dart to the edge, out of line of sight, if you
timed it properly.
Nota bene: This has now been fixed per above suggestion.
Other than the yellow alert and the loot list, there were no other busts: no
KOs, no damage inflicted or taken, &c. I did have to nudge the stationary
guard in the foyer forward, so I could get into the brightly lit front section,
whence I roped up into the secret area above the foyer (for a coin stack worth
a lousy 25... that's how desperate I was to scrape up every last nickle!)
One odd thing: I had at one point five water arrows; I used two of them taking
out the torches in this foyer... but I don't recall using any other water
arrows. I suppose it's possible, but I was really trying to husband the
consumables.
Yet somehow, after finding Garrett's house and entering it -- before that would
end the game, as I hadn't completed other objectives yet -- I found I had no
water arrows left. The three remaining seemed to just vanish, unless I used them
and have just forgotten. Weird.
Alas, I don't have a savegame from before that point,
so I can't go and check.
I enjoyed the mission a lot, up until the point it became an endless loot hunt
(which I don't really like). But if ghosters want a
real challenge, come up with a way of getting into that foyer without drawing a
yellow alert!
Note: A number of people have had trouble getting the banner to open in the
room with the long counter and the watcher inside the police station. You have
to frob a secret book in Lt. Mosely's office, which
is accessed through the foyer. I thought the banner had failed to open for me
because I was expecting it to open like a door... and because I was primed to
think it might fail by reading accounts of it failing to open for others. But
in fact, it slides to the right. When you return to the room, assuming you
didn't actually pace off the distance from the banner to the door, you might
not notice that it was different, as I didn't. Before assuming that you're
actually having that problem, check the wall just left of the banner for two
niches, one with a coin stack and one with Jeni's ring.
Dafydd
dafydd
03-08-2004, 04:48 AM
FM: The Monstery of St. Fera (illegal
Thief 2 rerelease)
File: MofF_T2.zip
Play mode: Ghost (success)
Perfect Thief (failed)
Time: 2:46
Loot: 1604 of 1809 (1600 required)
Pockets picked: 6 of 7 (all, I think)
Backstabs: 0
Knockouts: 0
Kills: 0
Damage dealt: 0
Damage received: 0
Secrets: 0 of 0
Comments
This has been "ghosted" before (the T1 version) by RiCh, back on July 22, 2002
(http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1178&perpage=25&pagenumber=2).
But there are a couple of things that we no longer accept: first, RiCh listed the "Ghosting difficulty level" as
hard, not expert; now it's possible that the original mission had hard as its
hardest play level; but if not, then this is a ghost bust.
Second, RiCh evidently ghosted the spiders at the
entrance to the underground tunnel by what we now call "blind luck,"
i.e., "quirks of the dark engine that are not repeatable." Here is
how he described it:
In one ghost run, out of frustration I was casually flipping the up/down lever
back and forth while I was leaning against the door. To my amazement the door,
instead of opening outwards opened inwards and disappeared? A bug? I think so
(anyone else seen this? I wasn’t complaining, I saved the game and proceeded
onwards with a smile on my face :)
I can't say for 100% certain that this was just a bug; maybe it happened everytime someone flipped the door open and closed while
leaning into it. But I absolutely could not make it happen even once.
Here is how I legally ghosted the spiders: after descending the spiral stair, I
stayed in the shadows and approached the door. The door is opened by a switch...
alas, the door opens outward -- that is, into the room where Garrett stands,
blocking the doorway. Any attempt to walk around the door to enter the doorway
takes Garrett into bright light, and the spiders spook.
However, I was able to jump-mantle up onto the top edge of the open door
itself. I couldn't do it every time, but after getting it once, I tested it a
few more times and was able to get up there twice more. Repeatable, in other
words.
Now came the hard part. Hopping down from the top of the door also puts Garrett
into light, alerting one of the spiders... but I found that if I did it fast
enough, dropping down and darting inside the doorway, I could get only the
slightest alert... the spider chirped, then began patrolling.
So I did it a number of times until I was able to get inside the doorway,
drawing a chirp but no patrolling or legs-in-the-air behavior. Again, I saved,
then tried it a bunch more times. It worked about every eigth
try, so again, it's repeatable.
There are no Craymen in this version of St. Fera, but there was an odd occurrance
in the underground rooms past the spiders. Several times when I was simply
crouching in darkness, waiting for the fire elemental to pass, I would hear a
loud clunk, like the sound of falling rock or metal. It sounded like something
had fallen from the ceiling onto the floor, but I couldn't see anything. But
trying to walk forward, I had a hard time getting around some invisible
barrier, where the noise seemed to come from. It's as if there were invisible
stones dropping from the ceiling. Alas, each one evidently alerted all the fire
elementals, because as soon as I heard the "rockfall"
tone, the elementals would begin seeking me... in fact, they suddenly became
possessed by Sherlock Holmes, able to hunt me down no matter where I was
hiding, even though I was in total darkness. Weird. I had to go quickly through
that section of the mission to avoid unwarranted alerts.
I exited from a high hole into the spider room. By turning sideways and
crab-walking through the hole, I was able to drop silently to the floor in just
enough darkness to avoid detection by the nearly blind spiders. I mantled onto
one of the steps while still in total darkness, and I was out of there!
So I think it fair to say that this version, at least, of the Monastery off St.
Fera is legitimately ghostable.
Dafydd
Old Man
03-08-2004, 07:03 AM
Something
I've had success with is making my last footstep sound in full shadow and then CCCing sliently away still in
full darkness. What I've noticed is that any AI searching for me will first
exhaust any visual sighting spots, then resort to locations where they heard
movement. It doesn't seem to matter whether they've alerted prior to my
reaching my final spot. They seem to store these hot spots for a while even
while not alerted. When they become spooked they'll first search out these
spots as above and then either return to their unalerted
status or take up a random search. This seems mostly based on how long they've
been searching already. Anyhow, having moved on to another hiding spot unseen
and unheard they never search that far. Well, occasionally it is difficult to
get far enough away to avoid their random searching. Not only is this an
effective method of remaining unfound but it can be used to direct the AI away
from areas where you don't want them with careful planning. And, of course,
this all applies especially when the alert is something beyond the player's
control and therefore Ghost exempt such as this one with the invisible rocks from
above which aren't the player's fault. Or, if they are the result of the
player's presence it is most likely a proximity trigger and still exempt.
Wonder if the Fire Elementals would still find you if you've moved on silently,
dafydd?
As far as the disappearing door is concerned, that seems to me a possible
engine expoit and may have something to do with the
number of times it is opened and closed. I just played GatB
T2 and the one downstairs bedroom door disappeared after only a couple of times
being opened and closed. In another recent mission I had the double cellar
doors do the same thing including floating off up to door heaven. Sometimes you
want to keep the door even then and I do this by leaning into the door while
opening it. The door will only open about half way and not disappear. Then, if
I still need it opened a bit more to pass through, I tap-tap the door while
moving into it again and it'll open a little further each time. This technique
works even with double doors when you cannot prevent one of them from opening
all the way and disappearing. It only seems to have disappeared. Closing the
remaining visible door results in the one that has disappeared emerging from
the walls and closing also.
dafydd
03-08-2004, 03:44 PM
[Old Man]
Wonder if the Fire Elementals would still find you if you've moved on silently,
dafydd?
I don't think I tried running to a different location... but I was way off the
patrol path, and the fire elementals all came there.
I just reloaded from before the invisible rock fell and moved quickly, and
there was no alert of the fire elementals.
Dafydd
dafydd
03-14-2004, 06:28 PM
FM:
Properly Paranoid (entry in Komag's Contest V)
File: c5ProperlyParanoid.zip
Play mode: Ghost (success)
Perfect Thief (success!)
Time: 2:32
Loot: 1387 of 1387 (1300 required)
Pockets picked: 1 of 1
Backstabs: 0
Knockouts: 0
Kills: 0
Damage dealt: 0
Damage received: 0
Secrets: 4 of 4
Comments
This is the first C5 mission I could Perfect and only the second I ghosted. (I
came close on Into the Maelstrom, but I was spotted by a ghost when I leapt
into the flooded hold on the metal ship; I didn't discover the moss arrow until
much later in the game, and I didn't feel like replaying it).
This is an excellent mission for ghosting -- curiously, you don't have a
blackjack, but you do have a sword, and there is no objective preventing you
from killing everyone! -- but there are several difficult-to-ghost spots that
require more raw nerve than anything else.
1. The watcher in the upstairs corridor;
2. The combat bot and the door you need to pick;
3. The lit room behind that door.
The watcher in the upstairs corridor
I realized I needed to get into the locked rooms in
this corridor, since I had to find the DeathWard --
which allows you to loot the mummy's room -- and it was nowhere else, so it had
to be here. Alas, there is a watcher at one end of the corridor whose
"patrol" is not long enough to allow me to run up the corridor, pick
open a door, and get inside before being spotted.
But the watcher is attached to a lock, and I guessed (correctly) that picking
that lock would turn it off. But even that lock is within the view of the
watcher when it turns left... and in any event, there are two AIs who patrol
the brightly lit corridor at regular but complex intervals.
My basic technique was to hide in the doorway of the elevator (not far enough
in to trigger the light gem in the elevator itself) until the coast was clear;
then to dart out, stand under the watcher until it was turning right, then run
to the lock and get in a bit of picking before having to dash back under the
watcher, thence back to the elevator. I found that one turn right was good for
a single "stage" of lockpicking
(three-stage lock).
The mace-wielding male who patrols that corridor started from my entry room
(the Harp room), took a look around, as if searching, when standing next to the
safe, headed towards the elevator, turned right into the corridor, then turned
right again under the watcher to head right back to the Harp room; he would
again pause and "search" near the safe, then again head towards the
door near the elevator -- but he would then do a loop-back to the safe and then
back and out the elevator-side door. This loop-back was my cue: after this, his
patrol would be a much longer one, passing under the watcher, through the
library, and all the way around the scenic route back to the Harp room... that
whole thing was one patrol.
The other guard was a crossbow woman; she would make several false starts from
the far end of the corridor towards the watcher, then finally walk under it and
into the library. So the longest time interval I had was when the male did his
loop-around maneuver and when the female went all the way. Er...
well, you know what I mean: all the way into the library. Then I would get a
good, long stretch, likely more than a minute.
Picking the lock a stage at a time -- I had time for two stages on one of those
"long tour" phases of the patrol, though I didn't realize it -- and
scuttling back to the safety of the elevator if necessary, I finally picked the
lock. As expected, the watcher turned off. Thereafter, the corridor was just a
matter of avoiding AI while I picked my way into the two rooms.
Incidentally, one of them has the DeathWard, but the
other has an invisibility potion (it's hot; turn off the gas under the Bunsen
Burner!) I didn't find the invisibility potion until late in the game, but I
didn't need it anyway. Chemical-free ghosting!
The combat bot and the door you need to pick
Down the elevator and into the room beyond -- solve the crossword puzzle; it
gives you the combination you'll need later to avoid being turned into a thief
pancake! -- and through the door leads to the T-corridor patrolled by the combot. I found out (online) that I had to get into the locked room at the neck of the T... but this was really,
really tricky: the combot patrols from the foot of
the T up and to the left, pauses, then back to the foot of the T, pauses, then
back up and to the right, pauses, then back to the foot of the T and pauses
again. It pauses for very little time at the left and right prongs of the T,
only a few seconds.
I did a man's job picking the lock, but I was completely unable to get it
(another three-stager) before being spotted and killed. Once again, I had to
use a staged approach.
I discovered that even though I was partially lit at the lock, the combot really couldn't see me when it was at the base of
the T. Starting from the Altar room (where I found the statue key), I ran down
the corridor right behind the combot and started
picking while it was still walking to the base of the T. I continued picking as
it turned around; when I finished one lockpick stage,
I spun and crouch-ran up the T and to the right, back towards the Altar room;
this kept me away from the brightest spot. I drew a first-alert grumble from
the combot ("I have seen... I do not know; this
incident will be reported; I have found -- no danger.")
Then, the next time the combot was headed back
towards the base of the T, I ran to the other side, hiding in the Crossword
Puzzle room. When the combot came to my side and then
departed, I edged into the corridor again, pressed up against the wall and
looking towards the Altar room, getting my next lockpick
ready. The combot marched back up the T and turned
towards that room, never spotting me behind it in the corridor. I darted
immediately to the locked door and actually had enough time for both lockpick stages and to move into the doorway, the only dark
spot between the well-lit T corridor and the well-lit room, where a guard
waited.
I waited, holding my breath, for the combot to pass
again; even though it was so close I could smell the sewing-machine oil, it
didn't see me in the sliver of total darkness. When it left again (for the
elevator side), I flew down to the base of the T, grabbed the ornate poker, and
raced back to my doorway.
The lit room behind that door
Next time the combot came and went, I mossed the area just inside the door, then edged into the
room, hugging the right wall and pointed towards the guard. I got a single
grumble ("come into the light, that I might see thee better!"), but
nothing more. I crept slowly through the well-lit room, but amazingly, the
guard didn't see me. I looked for a white cane and guide dog -- or at least an
umpire's manual. I was able to get all the way around and behind him... at
which point he finally spoke again, but only to say "'twas just the moss
in mine ears," and then he began intoning those endless Mechanist dirges.
I knew I would eventually have to loot that room (the paintings -- replace each
one with a conductive plate or else you'll be a pincushion), so I started
nudging the guard forward. I got him a third of the way across and got bored
I went off and did thiefly things in the two rooms
behind the guard, then returned. He was far enough forward that I could grab
the two pictures farthest from the front door... and an odd thing happened:
once I got picture number two, the light in the room turned off.
I tried going around in front of the guard and grabbing the third painting...
but when I did, that turned the light back on, and I was turned into smashed
potatoes. So I reloaded, left the third picture for later, and was able to move
in and out of that room at will for a while. I did eventually come back and
nudge the guard all the way up into the far right corner; when I maneuvered him
there, I was able to get the last picture and escape from the room without him
seeing me.
The rest of the mission was just ordinary sneakiness; there are a lot of
puzzles to solve, but they're the same for ghosters
and non-ghosters.
I will note that two extra objectives appeared: one ("Scout") when I
turned off the arrow-trap near the chest in the Number room, and the other
("Treasure Hunter") when I got all the loot; both appeared already
checked off. If there are other invisible objectives, I didn't trigger them.
Dafydd
Peter Smith
03-14-2004, 08:50 PM
FM: The
Focus (entry in Komag's Contest 5)
File: c5Focus.zip
Play mode: Ghost (success)
Perfect Thief (failed)
Time: 2:45
Loot: 1287 of 1397 (1000 required)
Pockets picked: 6 of 7 (all)
Backstabs: 0
Knockouts: 0
Kills: 0
Damage dealt: 0
Damage received: 0
Secrets: 6 of 6
Comments
This is an excellent small mission. Highly recommended for ghost play, or any
play, for that matter. Ghost is practically forced in Expert skill. The mission
has good architecture, story, puzzles, and game play. It was evidently designed
with ghosting in mind, because there is always a shadow handy, and there are no
serious ghosting challenges.
The mission is filled with little switches and secret passages. Fun to explore.
When a main route becomes challenging, as many of them are (for example,
watchers, a long haul over marble, or a slow, exposed elevator ride), there is
usually a secret side passage somewhere that can be used to bypass the area.
When you run out of ghosting options, it is time to look for more secrets.
There are lots of tricky little hiding places. You must find three gear keys
and three skulls, and these are nicely hidden. As hopes start to fade, you
discover another little area that allows you to progress. The game play and
design are qute good. But it is easy to miss these
secrets and become stuck.
In addition to secrets, there are a number of nice puzzles to solve. I won't
give the solutions. They include decoding a message, finding a strange key,
figuring out the order to press some talisman buttons, figuring out how to save
the keeper's souls, and figuring out how to kill the Master.
There are a few optional and bonus objectives which add interest to the play.
They include:
Kill the Master (optional)
Crack the code to the safe (bonus)
Find all the secrets (bonus)
No KO's (optional)
I got all of them with a little help on the secrets. However, Kill the Master,
if done, causes the No KO objective to fail, so I reloaded a saved game and
avoided killing him. I guess that is better for ghosting anyway. :)
I had some difficulty with completing the objectives at first. It seems that
the two main objectives, to free the souls of some keepers and to get "the
eye", disappear from your list if you reload a saved game in the wrong
spot. So I played through the mission accomplishing what I thought were the
objectives, and the game would not end. I posted this problem at TTLG, and Old
Man was kind enough to point out that I could re-establish the objectives by
going back to where the objectives were first given and re-reading a journal. I
did this and finished the mission normally.
Another little problem is that you are told to leave by the "back
door." Early in the mission, you find a key to a "back yard,"
which has a back yard door, of course. I assumed that this back yard was the
ending place. It isn't. There is another locked door, for which you can find
"back door" key at the very end of the mission. The "back
door" key does not appear if you have the objective problem mentioned in
the paragraph above. The doors aren't labeled. I got help at TTLG for that one,
too.
Finally, I must give credit to Nightwalker who told me about two of the six
secrets, both of which were non-essential to game play and contained minimal
loot. So, yes, I received a little help, but I got through all the essential
stuff without it.
As for the 110 missing loot, I don't think anybody has found all of it yet. The
best is -100 so far. I don't know where my missing 10 is, and of course I have
no idea about the missing 100.
dafydd
03-14-2004, 10:02 PM
[Peter]
This was my favorite of the C5 missions I've played so far. I ghosted it, but
only just barely. I too had to get a lot of help from the board.
Really fun mission -- did you get the impression that it was a lot larger than
it actually was? I was amazed that it fit within the Komag Kube.
You missed a bonus objective, by the way. Remember that note about the gal
losing her ring? When you read it, an optional objective appears to return her
ring to her.
Over in the area near where the Mechanist guy's room is, I forget his name (the
scientist who created the focus), there is a room that belongs to a thief who
weaseled his way into the castle by pretending to be a veteran (he's kind
enough to tell us this in his journal).
He mentions that the only thing he's stolen so far is a ring. It's on his bunk
bed (upper). That's Jenny's ring; if you take it and put it back on her bedside
table, the objective checks off.
Dafydd
Peter Smith
03-15-2004, 12:05 AM
Originally
posted by dafydd
[Peter]
You missed a bonus objective, by the way. Remember that note about the gal
losing her ring? When you read it, an optional objective appears to return her
ring to her.
Ah, yes. In fact, I did that in my aborted run where the mission would not end,
and then I forgot to do it again in the one that ended. :)
dafydd
03-15-2004, 12:23 AM
[Peter]
Oops, my error: I didn't ghost this one... and how the heck did you avoid
getting a yellow alert from the watcher when you rode the elevator up to the
second floor?
I didn't think it could be done.
Dafydd
Old Man
03-15-2004, 04:47 AM
I pointed
this out to you in the TTLG thread, dafydd. There's
an alternate route (one of the six secrets) for getting up to the elevator's
second floor that brings you out behind the watcher. The elevator is really
only needed to get up to the next floor beyond that. I was lucky enough to find
it before I tried the elevator. I agree with Peter, The Focus is merely a good,
solid Ghostable mission. No heroics required.
dafydd
03-15-2004, 12:34 PM
[Old Man]
...How do you get to that secret passage up to the second floor?
Dafydd
Old Man
03-15-2004, 05:07 PM
Originally
posted by dafydd
[Old Man]
...How do you get to that secret passage up to the second floor?
Dafydd Across from the double doors of the dining
room (off the kitchen) is a twin pair of double doors through which is a small
parlor with a switch low on the wall in a corner by an end table. It comes out
in Garibaldi's office where there's a switch to turn off the watcher on that
floor. The only trick is sneaking past the kitchen maid and then the patrol
near the elevator between the sets of double doors. Now that I think on it I'm
not altogether sure it's a secret. Whatever. BTW, that parlor has an overlook
from the end of the elevator hallway opposite to Jackson's room. One might be
excused from being completely thorough in this area since the library entrance
is here also which is a busy place and a sort of nexus of other remote areas.
Remembering to come back after all that and get to that parlor might categorize
you as tedious. I've come to expect better of you, however. :-|